What is your opinion of Cardladder?

[benxcrunner1]

Do you think it does more harm or good for the hobby? I think if they deleted the "CL Value" is would be great, but trying to guess the value of a card seems really really stupid to me, let the collector make their own decision without outside influence.

[AbraCalabro]

Do you think it does more harm or good for the hobby? I think if they deleted the "CL Value" is would be great, but trying to guess the value of a card seems really really stupid to me, let the collector make their own decision without outside influence.

Card Ladder and unpaid items, worth a read. I don't know what ever transpired of this, but I wouldn't throw them a dime. You're going to see a couple of posters that will astonish you with their blatant stupidity defending the service and telling the guy who got ripped off that he's wrong.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthrea ... &t=1523482

The algorithm that essentially costs you more money, coming from a Jordan hype man. One half of the CL development team. The whole thread is worth a read.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthrea ... 680&page=8

I think the two guys behind card ladder have done vastly more damage than any good. One of them was actually a genuine hobbyist until he sold the hobby out for his own personal gain and the other guy was never a hobbyist, but rather about ROI and a bunch of pseudo intellectual bull shit no one ever cared about. Once you know more about who is behind this thing, you'll be able to make an informed decision, most hobbyists I'm in touch with, from low end and all the way into the heights of the high end, dislike, or despise them.

Alternatives you can use on your own are the eBay sold listings, 130pt.com to check the best offer sales amount, or worth point.

[SacKingsCards]

I have a lot of scattered thoughts about CardLadder. Hopefully it can come together to form some modicum of coherency.

1. I don’t understand its existence. Why does anyone feel the need to pay to view comps when resources like Abra referenced are freely available? I gotta think it’s the CL founders monetizing the influence that they for some reason have on collectors.

2. CL index has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. Chris and Josh just decide? which cards are “important” enough to represent a player’s market? What gives them the authority to do that? Talk about a conflict of interest, not quite on the level of Nat Turner and PSA, but I don’t think it’s that far off.

And just overall not a fan of Chris and Josh. Just two more of the seemingly endless “collectors” making it sound like if you’re not collecting the right players/sets/cards then you’re not collecting right. Eww.

[benxcrunner1]

Do you think it does more harm or good for the hobby? I think if they deleted the "CL Value" is would be great, but trying to guess the value of a card seems really really stupid to me, let the collector make their own decision without outside influence.

Card Ladder and unpaid items, worth a read. I don't know what ever transpired of this, but I wouldn't throw them a dime. You're going to see a couple of posters that will astonish you with their blatant stupidity defending the service and telling the guy who got ripped off that he's wrong.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthrea ... &t=1523482

The algorithm that essentially costs you more money, coming from a Jordan hype man. One half of the CL development team. The whole thread is worth a read.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthrea ... 680&page=8

I think the two guys behind card ladder have done vastly more damage than any good. One of them was actually a genuine hobbyist until he sold the hobby out for his own personal gain and the other guy was never a hobbyist, but rather about ROI and a bunch of pseudo intellectual bull shit no one ever cared about. Once you know more about who is behind this thing, you'll be able to make an informed decision, most hobbyists I'm in touch with, from low end and all the way into the heights of the high end, dislike, or despise them.

Alternatives you can use on your own are the eBay sold listings, 130pt.com to check the best offer sales amount, or worth point.

Interesting threads. I find that a lot of the cards I buy on ebay never end up on CL so the data is imperfect at best. The CL value is also highly inaccurate. I've had cards I own swing wildly, like thousands of dollars in a single day. I've purchased cards for much cheaper and more expensive than what the so called "algorithm" says they would go for at auction. Not sure where Chris got the data claiming his algo was 80%+ accurate at predicting values...

[AbraCalabro]

I have a lot of scattered thoughts about CardLadder. Hopefully it can come together to form some modicum of coherency.

1. I don’t understand its existence. Why does anyone feel the need to pay to view comps when resources like Abra referenced are freely available? I gotta think it’s the CL founders monetizing the influence that they for some reason have on collectors.

2. CL index has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. Chris and Josh just decide? which cards are “important” enough to represent a player’s market? What gives them the authority to do that? Talk about a conflict of interest, not quite on the level of Nat Turner and PSA, but I don’t think it’s that far off.

And just overall not a fan of Chris and Josh. Just two more of the seemingly endless “collectors” making it sound like if you’re not collecting the right players/sets/cards then you’re not collecting right. Eww.

1 - yeah, knowing who's behind it (JJohnson / Soleternity) and who owns the service, (Nat) it's not something I would ever trust. Seriously, how incestuous is that? So this guy is in charge at PSA, has his own price aggregator and sends his own cards to his own grading company, lmao. Remember when he got called out for favored treatment, getting 10s on cards that didn't look like 10s? Remember when he complained about the up charge scam fee? Does he ever pay the up charge fee (scam) now that he's running the show?

2 - JJohnson, I remember was in the hobby for about 5 minutes and all of a sudden he's an expert selling picks on his website, if I recall correctly, he was charging 29.99 for a 30 minute personal consultation on what newcomers should be buying. It was freaking hilarious, but that's what they all wanted and why they were pushing GaryV as the messiah so hard, because they could capitalize off a bunch of noobs who were already cultists, being brought in by that turd, GaryV. He also had that price pusher Soleternity writing articles on the How to Collect Cards site about ROI, MJ cards, etc.

As for your last point, definitely got elitist vibes from Soleternity.

Did CL also claim to vet private sales as well? I think I recall that being brought up...so if I sell a super expensive Jordan card to my friend for one dollar and show proof the sale happened, are they going to take that into account now? lmao Not likely. That would be a no-no, not allowed to crash the prices, only raise them up.

relevant:

thannnnnnks

Interesting threads. I find that a lot of the cards I buy on ebay never end up on CL so the data is imperfect at best. The CL value is also highly inaccurate. I've had cards I own swing wildly, like thousands of dollars in a single day. I've purchased cards for much cheaper and more expensive than what the so called "algorithm" says they would go for at auction. Not sure where Chris got the data claiming his algo was 80%+ accurate at predicting values...

Thousands of dollars in a single day? Holy crap dude, that's wild. Yeah, seems like that algorithm is a real piece of shit. If I remember correctly, he got the sales data from PWCC, which was a dirty source due to all the shilling. This is 100% confirmed by eBay themselves who kicked PWCC off their platform for shilling. PWCC now is a Fanatics service and it's a safe bet that the shilling is still going on. I have to go back and read the thread, but I vaguely remember him not understanding the point that if the data is from shilled finishing prices that it's not useable to reflect actual values, then doubling down on it.

This is an ongoing problem in general, because the guys who have a lot of money parked in cards don't want to lose money, so they will routinely shill cards up and then you'll find sales that don't seem to have been shilled and the finishing prices are nowhere near the highs, even in comparable condition. It's just all screwed up, which is why I do not find CL or any other aggregator to be trustworthy. Nothing beats education and networking with other genuine hobbyists and using free resources to wade through the muddy waters. <--- this gets you the clear picture, instead of trusting a useless and paid service / aggregator.

[benxcrunner1]

I'm not going to judge anyone without meeting them in person and spending time with them. I just call it as I see it though, the product is only good for one thing, and that is giving "some" past sales data that could be shilled or not paid for. I own a Myles Garrett rookie prizm gold card that got shilled several times and relisted and all of the sales are in CL. Additionally the card that swung in value is a 2003 lebron jambalaya that after the Fanatics March premier and Goldin March premier somehow magically appreciated in value $2.3k overnight lol.

I should add, I also don't really have a problem with people trying to create something special, it takes guts, just don't misrepresent the capabilities and do listen to the honest criticism that can help you improve. Also have no problem with people making tons of money as long as it is done ethically. I do tend to agree with Abra though, these guys now have a somewhat cult like following, as do many with questionable pasts, seems to really add some $$$ to their bank accounts, but I can't say it's unethical when people willingly give you their money.

Off topic, but in terms of the hobby as a whole, with PSA owning CL and basically printing money, I'm shocked that no major competitors have emerged. PSA is charging $599 to grade any card they deem worth between 5k and 10k, which is based on CL flawed data and past sales. PSA grades a card in roughly 3 -5 minutes. I can't think of another business that you can make $600 in 5 minutes, not the top lawyers or accountants can bill that.